Talk: Dark Matter (species)

Misleading information?

The article says Dark Matter is the main villain of Dream Land 3 and Crystal Shards, but weren't those games' main villains Zero and 02?

No it said Major I'm ~CrystalLucario~ And I approve this message.

I just checked, and it turns out we're both right. It says "main" and "major" for some reason.

Zero/Zero Two was the main villain of kirby's dreamland 3 and kirby 64. It used be changed to primary villain.

Wait, not used, should I ment to say.

Is Gooey dark matter from Dreamland 2?

you know how in the trivia for dark matter it says that in the japanese guide book for kirbys dreamland 2 that dark matter attacked popstar because it was lonely and no one was its friend? While, i was wondering if that dark matter was gooey because it says that gooey is "made of the same stuff as dark matter" and could be a friendly bit of dark matter?

However there are multiple dark matters, as seen in the first 0 fight where he would shoot out little dark matters. Gooey actually made an appearance in DL2 when a mid boss was defeated and the animal you were riding was the one you rescued, he would give you one health, and if you were already full health ChuChu would appear and give you a one up.Themlblock (talk) 22:03, January 23, 2017 (UTC)

Inclusion of Magolor

Should Magolor be in the section of members, even as a possibility? In the trivia section, it states that "It is theorized..." that Magolor is a form of Dark Matter. I thought theories were not to be included in the main sections of pages.--Gioku^talk_user 03:44, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for noticing that. Theories without citations should be removed; if they are substantiated enough, the user would have put them in already. Watch out for wikipedia:Weasel words as well as long, argumentative essays; that usually means the theory is from personal observation alone, and not objectively presented by deriving from well-known or existing facts. It is indeed true that theories shouldn't be in the mainspace, certainly not outside of trivia sections, and those that are tolerated are usually so obvious that there is little reason or ambiguity within the sequence of events within the game to believe otherwise.Changtau2005

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 ^Poyo! 05:16, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

Possible Dark Matter

There are a few creatures that are possibly made out of Dark Matter, like Dark Nebula, I think we should include a small list of the creatures that are possibly Dark Matter under the Members section and state the reason for it.

Like this:

Members

• Dark Matter
• Zero (creator and leader)
• 0² (creator and leader)
• Gooey
• Blob
• Mariel
• Nidoo
• Miracle Matter
• N-Z

Possible Members

• Dark Nebula - Dark Nebula is thought to be the Original Dark Matter
• Dark Mind - Dark Mind is thought to be the Mirror World counterpart of Dark Matter
• Magolor Soul - Magolor Soul is thought to be Magolor controlled by Dark Matter

What do you think?DrNefarious 09:09, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

• How about the Master Crown for the whole Magolor Soul point? In the cutscene before the Magolor Soul he seems to almost go into the crown in a dark purple swirl? Connection to dark purple of Dark Daroach and Dark Nebula's dark purple color? And going even further, if the Master Crown and Magolor Soul are related to Dark Matter, could there be a connection to Landia, Grand Doomer, and the rest of the Doomers?

98.64.129.27 00:22, December 10, 2012 (UTC)Random Person

Like we stated before, Kirby Wiki is an encyclopaedia for facts, not speculation or deductions. This is the same for the large majority of wikis including all languages of Wikipedia. If you can find any of HAL's information specifically relating these to Dark Matter then link it, otherwise leave the article's material alone. Changtau2005

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 ^Poyo! 12:29, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, there's evidence in the games hinting at Dark Nebula being related to Dark Matter, as he's called Dark Zero in the Japanese games, and like you know, Zero and Zero Two are the leaders of Dark Matter. Plus he has the word "Dark" in both his Japanese and English names. - 190.139.54.57 02:26, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

That just boils down to mere coincidence. If they wanted to say that he was related to Dark Matter, they would've said so.--Starman125Kine? Is that you? 04:59, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

I's already stated that Dark Nedula's the ruler of the underworld. If he were anything else, we'd know about it.

Toldja. - 190.139.54.57 02:26, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

Main Charater?

I think that Dark Matter could be in category: main characters because he was a main villain in 3 games and was referenced in most of the games afterwards.Nintendo fan 2 00:19, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

Possible member?

Have you considered Cerulean being a member of Dark matter? Here are some similarities to Dark matter:

• It has one eye

• It floats

• It attacks Kirby

It may not be black, but I would like you to consider it or maybe look into it a little more. Fumutan wanna battle? no thanks. 16:55, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

• How about Mumbies and Spark-is, they also have one eye, float, and attack Kirby, but they are also black and have ony ever appeared in the same game as Dark Matter.58.7.125.144 08:21, December 4, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, all of this is bogus. First off, enemies in this series often have one eye -- saying that a floating, one-eyed enemy is related to Dark Matter also means that Metal Guardian, Blinkbat, Pacto, Maw, I³, Degout, Para Matter, Elec, Flamer, Scarfy, and many more are Dark Matter affiliates. Secondly, Cerulean has two eyes; it's just facing the side. Lastly, Mumbies and Spark-is aren't Dark Matter. You would need heavy proof of it, and the anime likely would have told Dark Matter-related details about Mumbies if there were any.

There's one thing I think we all need to remember: Not everything is black and white, but the Kirby series is. NerdyBoutKirby Fiery Christmas! 00:13, December 5, 2012 (UTC)

condition of battle in dream land 2

well, i thought that it was dumb that you had to have a  condition to fight dark matter in kirbys dream land 2. i was hung up on it for quite a while. then i learned i had to collect all the rainbow drops. it wasnt a nice feeling. well i will start playing kirbys adventure... (i have kirbys dream collection) im fine with kirby 64, and dream 3s boss condition ( i can just collect all the heart stars because you dont find them) but not kirbys dreamland 2. Blacknova785 (talk) 00:25, January 3, 2013 (UTC)blacknova785

dark matters real power

well, dark matter is pretty easy, but after him you have to fight zero. in the fight with dark matter, you might have lost a full square by accident. i am talking about dream land 3 when im typing this. when you lose to zero, you have to fight possesed dedede again. so dark matter is only made hard by other bosses. Blacknova785 (talk) 13:58, January 3, 2013 (UTC)blacknova785

Well, that's cleared up now!

Awesome! We finally got the true story behind Dark Matter, thanks to that Japanese guide! So he's just lonely, that's all... that also explains why 02 cries. He knows that Kirby and Ribbon are just two more people who will never be his friends... Creepy, but it makes me sympathize for him. WaddleDooFan77 Twice the awesomeness! 17:15, April 30, 2014 (UTC)

Eh, we used to have that Trivia bit, but it was unknown as to where it came from so it was deleted. I remember reading it when I first started out here. Meta Kirby52 It's all mine! 18:57, April 30, 2014 (UTC)

Sad

"In addition, the Japanese Hoshi no Kirby 2 player's guide 「最新星のカービィ大百科」 states that Dark Matter from that game targeted Pop Star because it grew jealous of Dream Land's lifestyle and it was lonely due to the fact no one wanted to be its friend."

...

THAT IS SO SAD!!! He needs a buddy... PyroGothNerd (talk) 00:34, June 3, 2014 (UTC)

Higher quality artwork from Kirby 20th Anniversary Encyclopedia Artbook

I've noticed some official art from this book has changed colors, such as Dark Nebula having dark purple smoke and a maroon eye, and Zero having a near-black pupil. So, this may be an official recreation or edited, but it is done by official sources.SYZekrom (talk) 02:22, July 7, 2016 (UTC)

"Swordsman form" to "Blade form"?

Dark Matter Blade is the official translation from Planet Robobot of his Japanese name 剣士ダークマター (Swordsman Dark Matter). Should all mention of his swordsman form be changed to blade form?SYZekrom (talk) 02:51, July 7, 2016 (UTC)

Maybe. Although we should note that only occurred in The True Arena, whereas every other time is Dark Matter Clone. IqskirbyBihm Masheen Gahn! 02:59, July 7, 2016 (UTC)

In the Japanese version, it calls him Clone Swordsman Dark Matter in battle and the true arena. SYZekrom (talk) 05:34, July 7, 2016 (UTC)

Hopefully miiverse will be able to answer the question as to whether blade was an error or not. For now, let's just stick with what we know. IqskirbyBihm Masheen Gahn! 06:28, July 7, 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by it being an error. It's Japanese name, as I said, definitely includes the words swordsman. Unless you mean by the fact that they changed it from Swordsman to Blade, but they've changed many names before, such as Dark Zero and Galactic Knight. SYZekrom (talk) 02:23, July 8, 2016 (UTC)

In the True Arena, it says "Blade," but during the battle, it says "Clone." This inconsistency could be interpreted as an error. IqskirbyBihm Masheen Gahn! 03:00, July 8, 2016 (UTC)

Dark Matter Blade Concept Art

From Kirby 20th anniversary book (Japan-only)

Where should this be added to the article?

In the artwork section. IqskirbyBihm Masheen Gahn! 03:00, July 8, 2016 (UTC)

Where did Duel in a Darkened Sky come from?

I'm surprised the Wiki's stating it's the official title. Did Dream Land 2 get an album release or something? I don't recall DL2 having a Sound Test or the like, and I doubt the game would've left a proper title in the code. I assumed this song title came from a music ripper.

I'm not sure either. I think it may technically be conjectural. There are titles for songs from the Kirby 20th anniversary CD, but I don't recall that being one of the songs, but don't quote me on that. IqskirbyBihm Masheen Gahn! 18:45, August 8, 2016 (UTC)

It might be the name from a Japanese soundtrack CD. They get those produced for every new game (the KRtDL and KTD ones used to be on JP Club Nintendo), so it wouldn't surprise me if they've been doing this since 1995. NerdyBoutKirby the EYES! 18:51, August 8, 2016 (UTC)

So, why do we just ignore the fact that the villains in Crystal Shards are a different race in Japan?

And also, everyone seems to say the 20th anniversary book "confirmed" Dark Nebula is a species of Dark Matter. It did not. It said that Dark Nebula and 02 have an unknown similarity to the Dark Matter species. Of course, whenever something in fiction mentions "it's unknown if there's a connection" or something, it means there is something connected, but everyone seems to misinterpret this as 'yea they're the same species'.

According the the Japanese Kirby wikia, Dark Matter has only appeared in Dream Land 2 and 3, and it lists Dark Mind, Dark Nebula, and 02 as possibly related, noting that the villains of Crystal Shards were changed to be Dark Matter in American localization. SYZekrom (talk) 01:31, October 4, 2016 (UTC)

That's not something I was aware of. Seems kind of strange for the villains in Kirby 64 to not be Dark Matter, given their blatant similarities visually and in what they do, and the second phase of the Dedede fight in stage 3 of Pop Star, which was similar to that of the second phase against Dedede in KDL3 (albeit significantly shorter). Also, given that I cannot read Japanese or have the Japanese 20th anniversary book, I cannot really say anything regarding Dark Nebula, simply going with it. I was only told that it confirmed, not that "it's unknown if there's a connection" stuff. IqskirbyBihm Masheen Gahn! 01:50, October 4, 2016 (UTC)

It should also be noted that this is an English wiki, and as such, we cover the English content. Not saying we can't point out differences between it and the Japanese version, but.... IqskirbyBihm Masheen Gahn! 02:11, October 4, 2016 (UTC)

I just skimmed through the Anniversary Book and found no mention of Dark Nebula. It must be in the History Hall itself, and considering my Wii isn't currently hooked up, I couldn't double check. Mind dropping the page number if it's in the Anniversary Book? Also, IQS is right. We tend to go off more English sources unless there's none, in which case we sprinkle in some other info from the other side of the lake. It's a little complex. Meta Kirby52 Not This Time. 20:35, October 4, 2016 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply, here is the page. http://i.imgur.com/v1DX2i5.jpg It's the blurb in the top right corner. I asked Reddit to translate for me and got this: ""Dark Matter, the invader from space, and his boss, Zero. Controlling people with a cloud of darkness, they are frequently revealed to be the true big bads. Kirby's comrade, Gooey, is also, in reality, a member of the same species. However, Gooey has no hostility towards Kirby and, in a form with fins not unlike those possessed by Dark Matter, flies through the sky and fights against Zero. Otherwise, the villains known as Dark Zero and O2 have similar names and characteristics, but their true form and relationship to the others is not clear."SYZekrom (talk) 15:57, October 6, 2016 (UTC)

Well that's interesting. I believe the reason we assumed (at least Dark Nebula) they were Dark Matter was because they were all grouped together on the page. 02 was assumed to be Dark Matter quite a bit before the 20th anniversary, but Dark Nebula was a little less clear. IqskirbyBihm Masheen Gahn! 17:53, October 6, 2016 (UTC)

Can we consider Dark Matter as a "True main antagonist" of the games

Dark Matter's influence has been around even beyond the grave showing up in a variety of cameos along with the possible connections to other villains such as "Dark Nebula" and "Dark Mind" and "Magolor Soul". As well as his return in Robobot as a clone (whichifitsaclonethathintsatthefactdarkmatterisnottrulygone) and in Smash Bros. through a sticker .(though that one is less revelant) Oh and the fact despite being King Dedede being quote-on-quote "Main Antagonist". He's been manipulated constantly by other minor antagonists in this franchise. Oh and the fact that it appears as the final boss of the minigame, Kirby Quest. Though the minigames like those aren't considered canon. Dark Matter's still a major evil force in that minigame. DestructionRobotnik (talk) 20:15, March 15, 2017 (UTC)

Dark Matter was a major antagonist in KDL2, 3, and K64, as well as in Squeak Squad as Dark Nebula. Dark Mind and Magolor Soul have no official connection with Dark Matter, however. Any cameos, including sub-games, mean nothing aside from being fan-service. His clone also does not render him as important in Robobot, as Meta Knightmare Returns is also non-canon, and therefore can also be subject to fan-service. Whether or not Dark Matter is truly dead, or it still lives somewhere is unknown, but it's no main antagonist. Your point on Dedede, though, is correct. IqskirbyBihm Masheen Gahn! 20:24, March 15, 2017 (UTC)

Nintendo Dream Trivia?

So the Japanese Kirby wiki has this under the trivia section of Dark Matter's page:

" この設定のうち、友達が欲しくて寂しがりだという設定については、『星のカービィ2』開発当時の社内にあったことが明かされている "

Which seems to be an acknowledgement that the "loneliness" backstory was taken into consideration during Dream Land 2's development (though Google translate's shenanigans might be giving me the wrong reading). Additionally, it was cited from a very recent issue of Nintendo Dream, like last month.

A translation/hard confirmation on the line would be appreciated. ExitDoor 62 (talk) 14:42, February 23, 2019 (UTC)

Note that Nintendo Dream issues actually come out roughly 2 months before the one they're named after. So the January 2019 issue was actually released around Novemeber 2018.

Either way, here is how I personally would translate that entire trivia point from the Japanese wiki:

On page 106 of "The Latest Kirby of the Stars Encylopdia", published by Keibunsha, it's stated that Dark Matter was a very lonely person, unable to say "let's be friends", and felt envious of those like the people of Dream Land, a country where everyone was friends, and thus attacked it. Furthermore, on page 105 it says that Dark Matter created the Dark Matter Castle with magic. It is unknown if either of those is officially acknowledged.

One of these two, the background information regarding Dark Matter wanting friends and feeling lonely, has been revealed to have existed within the company at the time of "Kirby's Dream Land 2"'s development.(citing page 33 of Nintendo Dream's January 2019 issue)

Translation notes:

- Keibunsha used to be a Japanese publishing company

- The book "最新星のカービィ大百科"("The Latest Kirby of the Stars Encylopdia") they published, that is mentioned here, is actually not specifically a Kirby 2 player's guide, like this here wiki's article claims, but a general Kirby encylopedia released in 1995.

- "unable to say" in this case doesn't have to mean that Dark Matter was physically incapable of saying it, it can also refer to being unable to say it for emotional reasons, or any possible reason, really.

- Since this trivia section is only citing Nintendo Dream, and not quoting directly, I cannot say what the exact wording was originally, and only hope that this trivia section is relaying it accurately. (From my experience, the Japanese wiki generally cites Nintendo Dream well though, I mean they even cite the page)

I could try and see if I could find a direct picture of the relevant quote, but personally I feel this has a good chance to be trustworthy. --Kaialone (talk) 09:03, February 24, 2019 (UTC)

About "Real Dark Matter"...

I read in Japanese Kirby Wiki that the name "Real Dark Matter" applies only to Dark Matter's true form from Kirby's Dream Land 2 (however, it still states that despite this, Dream Land 3 Dark Matter is the same individual as the one from Dream Land 2). Every other true form of a black sphere with petals is unnamed. So, edit? I=-Vanya-=I (talk) 05:43, September 18, 2019 (UTC)

Fine by me. I only intended "Real Dark Matter" to refer to the form used by the individual in KDL2&3. Iqskirby (talk) 05:48, September 18, 2019 (UTC)